Dual battery setup

[soccerbrace]

What is up everyone!

Before I add the electrical components that I have in mind, I want the battery power to do so.

Soooo, what I am doing is I am adding a second battery.

The batteries that I have right now are Optima yellow top batteries. Both are 870 CA and 750 CCA. Both have dual posts and are group 34 batteries.

I want to relocate both batteries to the rear of the truck. I am not sure if I want to do that, or if I want to run one in the back and leave the other under the hood in the original location. I have the following things so far to make it work.

2 Optima yellow tops
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h27/soccerbrace/D34-78_Front_1.jpg

Battery disconnect switch (sorry the picture is so big)
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h27/soccerbrace/20138-B.jpg

and a battery isolator
which is a NOCO IDG-140JP which is a 140 amp isolator(which I think I am going to take back)
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h27/soccerbrace/noco-hp-battery-isolator-140.jpg

So a few questions for everyone. What do you recommend as far as location? I know that I am going to put it behind the rear seats but unsure whether or not I am going to go with both back there or just on. I could throw OBA in the stock battery location.

Anywho, I still need zero guage wire, and I need a 400-500 amp fuse. Ian and I have been discussing this for a couple of days now.

This is an extremely clean install. I can get those connections easily through my job.

http://www.xterrafirma.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=5390&highlight=dual

Also, that little pushbutton voltmeter....any good links to where I can get one of those?

Thank you!-James

[punkrockdrummerx]

your gonna definitally want to upgrade your alternator as well. Mean Green makes a 180amp alternator that is awesome. I have one on my xterra with my dual battery setup.

[soccerbrace]

Nice, Is that Alternator universal? Is it made specifically for the X or is it from an ambulance or something? Kyle do you have pics of your install? What batteries did you use, and what components do you have on your set up as well?

[punkrockdrummerx]

the alt. is specific to the xterra or other 3.3L engine. Its a bolt on replacement. The only thing I would do with it is run another heavy gauge wire from the alt to that battery. As far as batteries, I have a Stinger Dry Cell battery (heavy duty deep cycle car audio battery) as my primary battery. The thing is like 8" x 12" x 10" tall and weighs 65lbs very tiny and deceiving. And my secondary battery is an odyssey battery. I forget which model, but its big and weighs something like 70lbs. I do not use a battery isolator because you do lose about 1 volt by doing so. I use a 200Amp relay to isolate mine (commonly found in car audio stores or online). As far as my wiring, I use 1/0AWG from the alternator and to connect both batteries. Very expensive and definitally overkill but I like it. My relay is connected to 2 toggle switches with each driven off a sperate battery so if either dies, I can flip the switch and start the car. Kind of a wiring nightmare, but thats what I do for a living so its easy for me. I can basically draw you up a wiring schematic if you want also.

[Alpine Spirit]

Also if you find a Nissan Quest alternator it puts out 110 amps. If you look hard enough you can find em in the junk yards.

[soccerbrace]

Alright, well I like overkill if you haven't noticed. I found a cheaper source for 0 gauge wire. Under $3 a foot so I thought that was a good deal.

So where exactly is your mounted?

Ok, so a relay.....

I can dig that, plus it is a lot less expensive I am sure. Gonna take back the isolator and the fuel pump from the previous project so that will give me an extra $100 to play with as well and the $50 that I just recieved for the gas tank will be helpful too.

Kyle, do you have a winch?

Do you have a link to that alternator? Also, I always hear about a Quest alternator. Not sure if that is the brand, or an alternator off of a Nissan Quest. Additionally, I might just try to scrap an alternator from a Junkyard for mine.

What components are you powering with all of this power? I am pretty sure you have a stereo system. What else do you have? Lights?

Where are your toggle switches located?

[Alpine Spirit]

This could come in handy too.

http://www.hellroaring.com/images/4x4.jpg

I know this model fits 110amp
110amp Nissan Quest (http://www.car-stuff.com/carparts/nissanquest19931998usaindustriesusa24551.html)

This one would be better and 130 amps if it is identical mounting.
130 amp Nissan Quest (http://www.car-stuff.com/carparts/nissanquest20042006usaindustriesusa24571.html)

[Alpine Spirit]

Also Kodiak Industries launched a dual Battery system this year.

http://www.xterrawolf.com/images/xterra/dualbattery/dualbattfinish01.jpg

http://www.xterrawolf.com/images/xterra/dualbattery/dualbattfinish02.jpg

For more info, call:

Kodiak Industries Inc.
Yawan Smith
408-591-1029

[CurleyMan]

I have had great sucess with the nissan quest ALT and one Optima battery... Although I will for sure throw another Optima battery on the truck. This is what I know about high amp sysems, a semi runs a 150 amp alt and an ambulance runs an 180 to 200 amp alt. The Semi powers all of the lights on the trailer and most everything else is air powered or gear powered (newer fuel pumps are electric). Ambulances require electricity to run the fuel pump, lights, sirens, power inverter, and charge multiple other batteries for medical equip. A semi Has 4 batteries and an ambulance has 4. So although amps are crucial I think stored energy is a must.. I can drain my system with the electric fans, winch KC lights, and ARB compressor.. When the ARB, fans and lights are running I can easily feel the motor struggling with the extra strain from the Alt.. With another battery in my opinion the system would be a little less taxed. I would not run an isolator as I see no need and the semi and ambulance don't use them...

[soccerbrace]

Curley, I am pretty sure that an ambulance DOES use an isolator.

You are right though, all of the Semi's that I have worked on have 3 or more batteries and no isolator w/150 amp set up. What is the Stock Xterra alternator 's amperage?

[DamnHippie]

I'm glad to hear you've decided to ditch the diode isolator. I was a little distracted when we were talking on the phone yesterday (I was rebuilding my sliders at the time) and I neglected to mention that the isolator would basically double your wiring requirements. You'd need two separate lines from the batteries at the back to the front of the vehicle -- one #0 for the winch, and something lighter, probably #4 would be fine, to run the engine and other standard electrical stuff.

I don't really understand what the isolator switch is good for either, but it does have a real cool Frankenstein Laboratory look to it. :)

It's not that easy to find a Nisan Quest in the junkyards in my experience, but it is very easy to find a Mercury Villager which uses the same nissan 3.3 engine (pull-n-save typically has 2 or 3 villagers at any given time). But, whenever I've seen either at a yard, the alternator is already gone.

I use the Mean Green 180 amp alternator, it's a direct bolt-on and it rocks. But it's pricey -- I have a $400 alternator bolted to a $500 engine.

Here's a good cheap source of #0 (and other heavy-guage) wire:

http://store.solar-electric.com/hardware---wire.html

Check out the welding cable at the bottom of that page. For those unfamiliar with it, "welding cable" is the wire you use to connect an arc welder power unit to the clamps that hold the welding sticks. It's also the stuff used for the ground cable on a MIG welder. It's double-insulated with flexible PVC, and internally it's got like 1000+ strands so it's very flexible and easy to route and work with. It's not as pretty as the $8/foot stuff from audio websites, but it's just as good in all other respects.

James, note the extra 5% discount coupon code at the top of that page, only if you order by the 31st. It seems to be saying you'll get 5% off everything you order, not just the wire.

Once you have heavy wire, you need ring terminals for the ends. The same site has those too:

http://store.solar-electric.com/teluwiha.html

I have the hammer crimp tool from that page, and also the stuff needed to solder the terminals (I both solder and crimp mine), so don't pay extra for that, you can use mine.

Now that you have terminals on those wires, you need to seal everything up nice and watertight. For that, 3/4" heat-shrink tubing is just the thing. Harbor Freight comes through with cheap goods in that regard:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=9639

The other thing you need in a project like this is a fuse near the batteries (as near as practical) that can handle the current for a winch. The wind-sun place doesn't have fuses big enough, since they're mainly about solar power. A place that does have big fuses at pretty good prices is:

http://www.donrowe.com/accessories/fuse_anl.html

If both batteries are in the same place you can use a single fuse for them. If you locate them in two different places, you'll need a fuse on each. 400 amp is good for most winches; 500 would be good too, because what the fuse is really doing is protecting against a short in the long wiring runs.

And finally, to protect against abrasion and such for that long wire run along the frame, some corrugated split loom tubing is good, this stuff:

http://www.wiringproducts.com/contents/en-us/d90.html

For #1/0 wire you need the 5/8" tube. But don't actually buy any of this, I bought 100 feet of it and only used about 30 feet, so I have lots left.

For the wire itself, I'd recommend you get 30' of red #1/0 and 10' (minimum order) of black #1/0. And at least a 10-pack of ring terminals, actually a 25-pack might be better. (I got a 25-pack and I only have 7 left after all my wiring upgrades.) You'd be surprised how fast 30 and 10 feet of wire get used up.

The main front to back run will use almost all of the red; it's like 17 feet along the frame back to front, plus the right to left distance because you'll want to run along the left (driver's) frame rail, but you also need to get over to the main electrical distribution block on the right side of the engine bay.

The 10 feet of black will get used up in making short ground leads from your winches and batteries to nearby points on the body or frame. Also, you'll want to upgrade the existing wimpy nissan #6 ground wire that connects body to engine. And I've yet to find the frame grounds on my truck, so they've got to be small, but I just put in a #0 frame to engine ground to make sure I'm covered (I use the frame for the ground return for the rear winch).

As someone mentioned, if you upgrade your alternator you need to upgrade its wiring as well. Nissan uses a pair of like #8 or #10 wires from the alternator to the main electrical box and its 100 amp fuse. If you run the new heavy wire up the left frame rail it becomes very easy to tie a short jumper from it to the alternator along the way.

To get across from the left to right side of the engine bay, I ran the wire under the top radiator support beam. I did it while my engine was out, and it was pretty easy to do standing in the empty engine bay, but I think it could be done even with the engine in place.

Jeez, this has gotten so long nobody will ever read it. I guess I should just stop typing and hit the submit button.

[DamnHippie]

Oh, one more thing, too late for me & James, but for anyone referring to this in the future it might be useful info...

An Optima Deep Cycle Blue Top battery is identical to a Yellow Top, except that instead of having GM-style side posts it has marine-style stainless steel screw terminals on top, along with the standard SAE terminals.

SAE terminals suck. Somebody was under the influence of drugs more powerful than anything I can get on the streets around here when they decided that a tapered lug that's tapered in the direction that helps it slip off was the right kind of electrical connector for a car battery.

The marine terminals are just the right thing when doing these kinds of upgrades we're talking about. All our new wiring is based on 3/8" ring terminals, and you can stack up half a dozen of those on the marine terminals, instead of ending up with a mess (or needing expensive custom connectors) for the SAE terminals.

[punkrockdrummerx]

James, this is my rear stereo setup:
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o271/punkrockdrummerx/DSC06507.jpg

The sub woofer box looks huge for 2 8" woofers, but there is a hollow center where I keep my 2nd battery, capacator, crossovers and other wiring. Here is a look at that:
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o271/punkrockdrummerx/DSC06510.jpg

This is my isolator relay, but as its hooked up in this picture, its not using the relay at all because another in my group one time lost his alternator, and I just gave him my main battery so he could get home and still have power to do so.
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o271/punkrockdrummerx/DSC06517.jpg

And this is a shot of the alternator:
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o271/punkrockdrummerx/DSC06520.jpg

[CurleyMan]

Oh, one more thing, too late for me & James, but for anyone referring to this in the future it might be useful info...

An Optima Deep Cycle Blue Top battery is identical to a Yellow Top, except that instead of having GM-style side posts it has marine-style stainless steel screw terminals on top, along with the standard SAE terminals.

SAE terminals suck. Somebody was under the influence of drugs more powerful than anything I can get on the streets around here when they decided that a tapered lug that's tapered in the direction that helps it slip off was the right kind of electrical connector for a car battery.

The marine terminals are just the right thing when doing these kinds of upgrades we're talking about. All our new wiring is based on 3/8" ring terminals, and you can stack up half a dozen of those on the marine terminals, instead of ending up with a mess (or needing expensive custom connectors) for the SAE terminals.

I've been using the blue top for 2 years now. Your right no reason to buy a Chevy style battery when we don't have chevy's.. The marine posts do kick ass and are perfect for mounting a quick disconnect.

[ChefTyler]

Not saying anyone is wrong, but from what I have read, the Yellow Top is a deep cycle designed for high amp draw loads like winches, whereas the Blue Top is a deep cycle designed for low amp draw loads like trolling motors...something about the connections between the cells and the posts.

[CurleyMan]

You could be correct I haven't had any trouble and i've used my winch atleast 40 times in 2 years. It could be true though hmmm i wonder what difference it would make...

[Reserector]

hmmm i wonder what difference it would make...

About $40 :crazy:

[soccerbrace]

Alright dudes, I am a bit overwhelmed right now with all this info.....Lol

seriously

[Alpine Spirit]

About $40 :crazy:

Did anyone else hear drums after that?!? :rolleyes:

[DamnHippie]

There are a variety of bluetop models, some for starting, some specialized for trolling motors and such, and others that are combined starting/deep cycle. The D34M bluetop is the one that's identical internally to the yellowtop D34/78. The D34M is for starting and deep cycle wth high-current-draw accessories. (I'm getting this from the Optima product literature and spec sheets.)

[soccerbrace]

Alright, I am about to take that Isolator back. Should I just take this back too?

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h27/soccerbrace/20138-B.jpg

[CurleyMan]

yes if you do infact want a cut off switch there much nicer ones made for car batteries.. Some have keys and others just have an on off switch...

[soccerbrace]

Cool, thanks man. I will be taking that back then.

[ChefTyler]

There are a variety of bluetop models, some for starting, some specialized for trolling motors and such, and others that are combined starting/deep cycle. The D34M bluetop is the one that's identical internally to the yellowtop D34/78. The D34M is for starting and deep cycle wth high-current-draw accessories. (I'm getting this from the Optima product literature and spec sheets.)

Gotcha, thanks Ian :D

[soccerbrace]

Sweet! just took back that fuelf pump for $40, the isolator for $60, the disconnect for 2o, and some WAY overdue Blockbuster movies for about $50 bucks so I am sitting almost $200 richer (in 2-3 business days)

Alright, so I checked out the cost of an alternator today. $191 for a re-manned Quest 130 amp alt. Autolite brand

Question.....IF I were to get this, what year Quest should I be looking for? I asked for an 06 I believe because I was not sure.

[Packman5280]

junk yard would be a lot cheaper, just a thought.

[soccerbrace]

Is that 180 amp alternator going to be THAT much better than a 130 amp? The cheapest that I can find the Mean Green is 369 and I can find the quest/villager alternator waayyyyy cheaper.

I need to know what years to look for to get the right alternator from a villager/quest to put on an 04 N/A Xterra. WIll they all work? I think I saw a 3.0 and a 3.5 in there as well. Enlighten me my friends!

[soccerbrace]

Also, Ian, is Will this fuse work?

http://www.priceinsanity.com/servlet/the-949830/BLUE-SEA-5137-FUSE/Detail

[soccerbrace]

I think that the fuse kit on the link that you provided will be best though. $35 plus I could buy a spare 500 amp fuse like you suggested.

[soccerbrace]

yes if you do infact want a cut off switch there much nicer ones made for car batteries.. Some have keys and others just have an on off switch...

Can you point me in the right direction?

[DamnHippie]

Yeah, any 500 amp ANL fuse will work. It's the ANL fuse holders that are harder to find at reasonable prices. Audio sites have blingified ones for $50 or more. With those you're mostly paying for the decal so that your homies will know you paid top dollar for some name they've all agreed to worship, pointlessly. Pretty much exactly the same as wearing a jacket with a designer logo -- it's made by the same 7 year old chinese girls who make the identical-looking $12 jacket at walmart.

For the cutoff switch, I still wanna know: why? What are you cutting off? One battery from the other? Accessories from the batteries? I've just never understood what their intended purpose is.

As to the earlier post about being $200 richer: that was before you realized you were about to spend over $100 on the wiring apects of this project. Oh, and I was doing some rough counting in my head and quickly got up to 14 ring terminals you'll need; you're probably best off with the 25-pack.

[soccerbrace]

Lol, about the young asian women

Yeah I knew that I was $200 richer and still going to spend $100+ on wiring.

And about the cut off switch, I don't really know why I want it......

I guess, I want to be able to pull one battery out and lend it to a friend if needed. Such was the case this morning.

So instead of that, I would want 2 female/male disconnects. One long enough to reach the other in case I do have to lend the battery out.

[tmorgan4]

I didn't get to read your whole thread, but it seems like someone already suggested that you carry AT LEAST one spare fuse. Preferably more.

An even better idea, assuming they make them in 500 amp models, is a circuit breaker like you use in your house. A friend of mine put one in with his car stereo. It works like a cut-off switch...you can turn it off manually if you'd like, and it will pop like a fuse but can be reset. I'd hate to get stuck out in the middle of nowhere because you've got a problem and you blew through all your fuses and now the car won't start.

[soccerbrace]

Right, Yes, Ian is the one who suggested via phone that I have a spare.

I think that I can find a circuit breaker. it would be nice to just touch a button.

However, I am thinking that Im am going to go with a plug disconnect instead.

[DamnHippie]

I couldn't find a reasonably priced DC circuit breaker in the 400-500 amp range.

I only carry one spare fuse. If you replace a fuse without knowing why it blew and blow your spare that way, you kinda deserve to get stranded. If you figure out why it blew and fix the cause, then you don't have to worry about the spare blowing before you get home.

For disconnect plugs, you need these: http://store.solar-electric.com/sb-350-2-0.html

Don't worry that they say 350 amp, they'll handle way more than that. The rating is 350 amp continuous forever. It'll hand more for short periods, up to 1000 amps for a few seconds. (You'd burn out your winch motor before exceeding the plug rating).

Be sure to get all the same color plugs, only like colors will mate up.

[soccerbrace]

So, Ian, is this the one that I will need then?

http://store.solar-electric.com/sb-175-1-0.html

Also, how does that work regarding the crimping and all? Is there anything else that I will need with this?

[DamnHippie]

No, you need the one I posted the link to, the SB350, not the 175. You can get any Anderson Power connector in any color, there's a popup color chooser on the order screen.

If you get the SB 350 that's designed for #2/0 wire we'll be able to put #1/0 wire into it just fine. Anderson sells some little adapter things, basically like a sleeve to slim the 2/0 connector barrel down to 1/0 size, but I didn't find any need for them.

I treated these just like ring terminals, I both soldered and crimped them. Even with that crimp tool from the wind-sun site, it's very hard to crimp the SB350 connectors, they're heavy metal. But I put the crimp tool into a ball-joint press and used the impact gun to tighten the press down and it worked great.

[tmorgan4]

I've got those same connectors on my winch but the Warn variation...same deal. I soldered and crimped mine as well.

I cut off a half-inch or so piece of thick solder and put the metal part in a vice. Standing it up so it's like a cup, put the solder in and heat up the metal piece with a torch and the solder will melt fairly quickly. Stick the stripped wire in and let it cool down. I crimped mine using a good sized bench vice and it worked well.

[soccerbrace]

Alright, so yesterday I picked up some disconnects locally.

I keep on hearing different opinions from other people regarding componentry for this....

I am hearing do a relay, do a switch, do an isolator, blah blah blah, circuit breaker.

It is really quite confusing......

Actually, the "experts" at batteries plus were debated and debated and even had a little 10 minute pow wow. Finally the general consensus was......."That is just more work than we are wiling to handle". I told him " I never said you guys were going to do the work. I asked you if you guys have a fuse" A huge sigh of relief overcame the ensemble of young prodigies. Arms unfolded, frowns turned upside down, and heads nodded in an unspoken agreement which meant "that's good...", "yeah, that is good"

So I am off to order the wire, the fuse(s), and also the ends right now.

Will return with more questions

[DamnHippie]

You got SB350 connectors locally? How much did you have to pay for them? Usually the walk-in sucker price at a 4x4 shop is like $30-40 each.

[soccerbrace]

I paid 6 dollars total for 2 pair. I just realized thought that they did not come with the contacts. Where can I get those?

Also, these are the ones that I purchased.

http://www.powerwerx.com/product.asp?ProdID=15784

I asked if they would fit 0 gauge. He said they will. Are there numbers on the connector that I can look at?

The connector reads

SB

175A-600V

Did I get the right ones? They were not in the package. They were out of some bin in the back where there was a whole heap of them.

Also, here is a battery hold down that I liked.

http://www.man-a-fre.com/parts_accessories/4+PlusFJ40DualBatteryBoxes.htm

Anyone have any suggestions as far as a good vendor for a battery box or tie down for 3 batteries?

[DamnHippie]

Those are not the right connectors, those are SB175 (175 amp), the small ones. That's why they're so cheap. The datasheet for the SB175 says it can handle 400 amps for about 30 seconds before overheating too much. That doesn't seem like long enough to handle winching (I used my winch continuously for a lot longer than that the first time I needed it, and I was pulling 2 trucks at once, so I was definitely using max power.)

For a battery hold-down I'd just go buy the J-bolts at any car parts store for $2 and use a piece of scrap steel for the top part. That's just me tho, I'm all about function over looks.

[punkrockdrummerx]

for crimping those, your gonna need a good set of crimpers. I bought a set of wire crimpers from snap on right before they discontinued them. the suckers set me back $300 but they crimp anything from 4awg all the way up to 4/0awg. If I was closer to you james I would let you borrow one, but since I am so far away, I would need something like a kidney to hold as collateral - haha. but as said before, the vise and solder thing will work good. just make sure to solder it good.

[DamnHippie]

I have a good-enough crimper. It'll do from 8 to 2/0, and it's not the best thing in the world, but for something you're only gonna use a couple times a year (and only cost $35) it's okay. Soldering is a skill I learned before I was out of grade school. For wire this big I use heavy solid-core solder and separate paste flux.

[pathmaker1]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBTOX%3AIT&viewitem=&item=7958309150&_trksid=p3984.cTODAY.m238.lVI

check out this guy on ebay. im probably grabbin this alt. 160A for my pathy for $240 thats includin shipping. dunno if hes got one for your rig but its worth a shot. i think its a pretty good price for mine and the alt are new not remaned from the message he sent me.

[Bill Potter]

Lots of good info in this thread!!!

I had the thought that it would be possable to do an isolated setup for charging and normal use. Then add a switched high current run between the two batterys that could be switched on/off for times when you need the full power of both.

I think most RV's have something like this.

What do you think?

Bill

[soccerbrace]

Right, I have seen that as well. I think it is an isolator operated by a 3 position switch. The top would use battery one, while both batteries are available to be re-charged, the middle position would use both batteries power, and the bottom would use the secondary batteries power while both batteries are available to be recharged.

Bill, let's both do all of this in about 3 weeks at Ians.....What do you think?

[DamnHippie]

As an FYI for Bill and James, I've ordered a bunch of 1/0 cable, plenty for both your projects and some to spare for the future. Got plenty of ring terminals too. I'll also get the SB350 connectors, those I can have in-hand usually within 24 hours. The wind-sun site usually ships the cable within a day or two, unless they have to order a new roll or something.

I need a count for the SB350 connectors. James, I guess you'll just need two of them? You're just using them so that your 2nd battery can be disconnected quick and easy?

Bill, you'll want 3 at least (both ends of the truck plus the winch), how about any extras for jumper cables?

My plan is to cut my existing jumper cables near one set of clamps and put SB350s on both cut ends. Then I've got a normal set of jumper cables if they're plugged together, or a long cable with clamps that can plug into either end of my truck. I just have to figure out a good way to get #6 jumper cable wire into #2/0 plug connectors.

[Bill Potter]

one for the jumper cables should do it. Because we are upgrading the winch to the 0 gauge cable....I'm just going to put clamps on one end of the 20ft 2 gauge cable that came with the winch.

Wonder If I can find clamps that just bolt to the cable. I've never liked the crimped ones.

[DamnHippie]

If you've got some existing clamps we can convert them to use a bolt easily enough, I'd think.

[soccerbrace]

Right, Ian I will need 2 of the SB 350's but I am going to take the 175's back to the store where they were bought, and see if they have any 350's first.

When you first posted, I didn't understand why you insisted on blue. I just figured you had an infatuation. Now I understand, that each of the individual colors have 1 power rating, but are able to fit different gauges.

Ian, if you have found them for $30-40, you can find them here for $8

http://cgi.ebay.com/SB-350-BLUE-Anderson-style-electrical-connector-SB350_W0QQitemZ190154217138QQcmdZViewItem

Bill, I MIGHT have a clamp for you. Sounds like you are going front and rear with your batteries. IF you reconsider placing them side by side, I have a PERFECT battery tie down. You are most likely using group 34 batteries. This is made for 31 but it will work fine. Let me know if you are interested. It is yours if you want it.

I will be back to you on the 350's on Wednesday at the latest.

Also, does anyone know of any battery clamps that are quick disconnects?

[DamnHippie]

James, at no point did I ever insist on blue connectors. In fact, what I've repeatedly said, I'll say it for like the 3rd time here, is "Every size of Anderson Power connector comes in any color you want." The only time I mentioned a specific color was an offhand mention that I chose gray. There's no relation between colors and power hanlding capacity. There's no relation between color and the wire gauge.

The only significant thing about the colors is that only like colors will mate up. If you buy a red SB350 and a blue SB350 they won't connect together. The only point of that is that in an industrial setting it lets engineers design safety factors into systems. All the red plugs can be 12v and all the blue plugs 24v and you can be sure the worker drones don't plug a 12v device into the 24v supply and that sort of thing.

What I've been insistant about is that the model be SB350, not SB175.

I've also said over and over that I can get these plugs for $15. (I did mention that if you get them from a 4x4 shop they tend to run $30-40.)

I'm a bit dubious about SB350 connectors for $8 each. That's like cheaper than wholesale which means they were probably stolen off the back of some truck or loading dock and I'm not gonna be involved with that.

ETA: Look again, closely, at that ebay offering... "Anderson style connectors". Not the real thing.

[soccerbrace]

Ahhh I see. Well I will look closer. Well there is one other brand that I have seen and it is seems like it is pretty nice and that is HMS.

Also, Ian for that alternator off of a quest/villager, what years should I be looking at?

[DamnHippie]

I don't know about the quest alternator. For a couple years I kept my eyes open whenever I was at a junkyard, and every Quest or Villager I ran into was already missing the alternator.

It looks like those connectors on ebay are HMS brand. I have no idea if they're any good or not. They're half the price of Anderson, they may be half the quality. Or they may be made by the same children in the same chinese factory.

[soccerbrace]

Well, we use the HMS brand at work so I am positive that they are high quality because I work with them every day. Hmmmm....Think I might buy those....

Alright well, I will search the local junkyards, and report any progress relating to alternator findage

[Packman5280]

Or they may be made by the same children in the same chinese factory.

quotable for sure

[soccerbrace]

Alright so is there a set date for this? Saturdays SHOULD be good for me, and usually Sundays are as well.

[DamnHippie]

No set date yet. I'm not sure when the wire will arrive, except that I'm pretty sure it won't be in time for this weekend. Probably good for next weekend. My schedule is pretty flexible (one of the nice things about being self-employed).

[soccerbrace]

Alright cool, just took back the other connectors. Bill, I highly recommend you do the HMS connectors. Identical to the Andersons. I am about to order mine right now.

[soccerbrace]

Alright, I ordered those connectors, next week, I will order the in line fuse.

Ian, as far as the mod day, how about the second week of Feb.? Leaves us all time to get organized/ financially stable for it.

[DamnHippie]

So like Feb 9th or 10th? That should work for me.

On the financial side, worry about all the other stuff you need to buy first, and if you're a bit short for the wire, pay me later when you've got enough $ to spare.

[soccerbrace]

Well the 9th or 10 should work for me. Is that good with Bill? The thing is, I might be flyig to Hawaii at the end of Feb for the scattering of my grandma's ashes. That's what I am saving for. I appreciate it though!

Alright, a month from today, just have the fuse left to order then.

[Eric P]

Count me in, I want to see the final product.

[soccerbrace]

I am pretty sure that the connectors came in. I got a note saying a package was being delivered to my door yesterday.

So I am going to have TONS of accessories running to the battery. Should I get a distribution block?

[Alpine Spirit]

Fuse Dist Blocks are awesome... you can switch everything to standard blade fuses. And keeps the fuse close to the battery which is where you really want it for everything, that way if a short happens it pops the fuse near the battery and the power is cut through the rest of the line.

http://www.stu-offroad.com/electrical/fuseblock/fuseblock-3.jpg

I also used one of these ... High amp circuit breaker.

http://www.wiringproducts.com/contents/media/l_hiamp_breakers.jpg
With it I can cut power to the whole block if I need to work on something.

[soccerbrace]

Kev, where is that? Pass side firewall and are those the heater hoses?

[DamnHippie]

Most dist blocks are only good up to 30-40 amps per distribution leg. Great for most all accessories except the winches -- those you generally need to connect right to the big fuse on/near the battery.

Speaking of fuses and such -- all the parts I'm responsible for ordering (wire, ring terminals, fuse blocks and 500 amp fuses) have arrived.

[Alpine Spirit]

Kev, where is that? Pass side firewall and are those the heater hoses?

Thats just a stock photo from some site.

Quickie Diagram
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/2360/fuseblockad1.gif

And like Ian said those Fuse blocks are good for Pumps, CBs, Lights small draw stuff.... a winch would fry it.

[soccerbrace]

Cool, so what's my total so far minus the wire, and did we end up getting the free shipping?

should be around $40 or $50-ish.

Ok, so a distribution block is good for accessories....got it.


So I also have 2 amplifiers for my stereo, that are pre-wired for everything but I was waiting for battery cable.

[Alpine Spirit]

Not to thread jack but seams like a good place to put this info about why to put the fuse close to the battery. Reduce Fire Danger.

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/1381/wiringme4.gif

Its not just having a fuse that is important but where the fuse is located. After I learned this I rewired some of my lighting to make sure I never had an issue.

[soccerbrace]

Right, I have heard that about >8" from the battery is a good location for a fuse. I did it differently though with my CB. I might install the inline fuses sometime soon. I have A LOT of rewiring going on soon......


Does anyone know of a good place to buy a good universal dual battery tray???? I am putting them both behind the seats.

Here is one that I found so far

http://www.wranglernw.com/pc-6376-790-universal-dual-battery-tray.aspx

[DamnHippie]

Wow, I sure wouldn't pay $130 for 75 cents worth of 12 gauge steel. Seriously, we can build that out of scrap laying around in my garage, spray paint it black, spend a couple bucks on J-bolts at the autoparts store for the hold-down, and call it done. We can integrate a mount for the 500 amp fuse holder while we're building it.

[soccerbrace]

So tomorrow is the day! I am going from junkyard to junkyard today looking for a quest or villager alternator.

[XterraRob]

Where is this happening :P

[DamnHippie]

At my house. And I definitely don't want a crowd of people here, it's gonna be hard enough to track this electrical problem down and get the original wiring project done without it turning into a big social event.

[soccerbrace]

Alright.....got a problem. The front battery is overheating and is even boiling now......

I think the front one was 100% dead when I Arrived

[DamnHippie]

It may be a goner if it was sitting around totally discharged for months (and it has been like what, about 6 months since this project first go started?). Even deep-cycle batteries aren't totally immune to that kind of abuse, although they're harder to kill than regular batteries.

The boiling thing is a problem if it's causing hydrogen sulfide gas to escape, since the batteries are inside the cab now. If that's the case, get that one out of the circuit and if you're gonna try to resurect it, do it offline with a trickle charger. Hydrogen gas will explode if it builds up in the cab.

[soccerbrace]

Hydrogen gas will explode if it builds up in the cab.

So what?;)

I am thinking-return it. That other battery was in my MR2 until about a week after mothers day. Can't remember if I charged it or not. I want to say Yes

[soccerbrace]

Alright, the X barely started this morning, and when I stopped it, it did not start at all. I could not jump it from the batteries, I had to jup it from the + and - under the hood.

[DamnHippie]

Take the dead battery out of the circuit and you should be fine on the other one (although it may be mostly discharged now from trying to put a charge into the dead one).

[cameron_garrison]

ok so what is the purpase of running dual batteries the batterys are only being used when the truck is off correct or no sorry i know stupid question

[DamnHippie]

I'm not sure what James' purpose is, he doesn't seem to have enough electrical draw to need two batteries.

If you've got a winch, it'll draw 300-400 amps, and your alternator only puts out about 100 amps (stock) or maybe as much as 200 (aftermarket Mean Green), so the alternator doesn't keep up with the winch's requirements. In that case, having two batteries means you can do a lot more winching without worrying about killing the battery.

I've done some pretty heavy winching on just one battery without any problems yet (I've got a mean green alternator). Bill was telling me he winched a whole crowd of folks down white knuckle hill in moab without any problems on a stock alternator. So for now I'm sticking with the single battery myself -- no need to carry about 65 lbs of lead around.

[soccerbrace]

Well, I am going to run a kick ass stereo system in there, all I need are the 4 AWG wire in there to finish it.

Also, I am going to have lights all around and eventually, front and rear winch

[Bill Potter]

Well...my 2 cents...if one battery was bad the other one will get over charged to the point it will boil.

When/if I get two batterys I will buy a set at the same time....the RV had two coach batterys and when ever one went bad the other died very quickly....I allways had to replace them as a set.

[DamnHippie]

Yep, and they do always say with a dual battery setup you need two identical batteries. Not just model, but age/condition as well.

James, Bill makes a good point, the battery that's getting too hot is likely the good one; it's overcharging because the other one won't hold a charge. The thing to do is isolate the problem -- try one battery, then the other, see which one holds a charge and which is bad. And don't go just by the reading on a multimeter, you might see a good reading until you put a load on it (like the starter).

[soccerbrace]

Well today, I went to start it and it was the same results as last time it ran.

So, I did what you said Ian, and I switched the two batteries' positions.

It started but it WAS a hard start. We will see tomorrow

[DamnHippie]

I didn't say to swap the two batteries' positions, I said to remove one, then the other, to isolate the problem.

Seriously, sometimes I wonder why I bother to offer suggestions at all, since all you ever do is either question the suggestions as nonsensical, or try eight other things that nobody suggested without getting near the suggestions people have made, then you come back and ask the same old questions again.

[soccerbrace]

I didn't say to swap the two batteries' positions, I said to remove one, then the other, to isolate the problem.Seriously, sometimes I wonder why I bother to offer suggestions at all, since all you ever do is either question the suggestions as nonsensical, or try eight other things that nobody suggested without getting near the suggestions people have made, then you come back and ask the same old questions again.

I forgot to mention, I had the isolator plug unplugged so I DID do what you said. I isolated it, no cigar, so I swapped positions(while it was still isolated), and then it worked.

Swapping the positions is the same thing as isolating them since I had the plug disconnected