holy cross?

[itsme1738]

anyone ever try holy cross trail? i did it last year
you need 33s min. and 3-4 in lift min to go 3/4 to
the top then u have to have a winch pretty cool
and camping is free at the bottom
jeff

[oleblue]

I tryed it last summer in my stock Xterra. Made it upto French Creek. There was a group of 20 vheicles at the creek when we go there, they were going no place.

I could not see a good line out of the creek for the Xterra and it was getting late when our group was able to start moving. I did not want to hold up the line at all being it was late, 4pm and still going up, so I decided to turn back.

and here is the X:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a89/oleblue/100-14STOL.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a89/oleblue/Video/th_100_1482.jpg (http://s9.photobucket.com/albums/a89/oleblue/Video/?action=view&current=100_1482.flv)

[itsme1738]

yea i bottlenecks at french creek i got there at 1:0o
and waited 2+hrs 4 6 trucks to get through wow!
:eek: french creek is about as far as a stock truck
wants to go....great ride like i said u need a winch
to make the last obstical...too steep+ smooth
later
jeff

[Shaggy]

That is the one trail in Colorado I still have on my "To Do list". One last difficult trail to conquer before I retire to leisurely trails like Bill Moore Lake, Webster/Redcone Pass etc. 31's with a rear locker. Bring it on. :)

I won't deal with crowds though...so I might have to do a weekday, or insanely early day of it.

[Packman5280]

not to be a dick, but one reason there are so many crowds is there are people running the trail in a stock or almost stock rig that has no business being there.

[Shaggy]

not to return the favor, but don't assume because the truck is on the lower end of the spectrum so is the driver. I did the Rubicon with only one or two tugs on street tires (32's at the time...my new muds are only 31's), and have done Golden Spike (with 1 tug because it had rained hard the night before). From what I have heard of Holy Cross, its hardest obsticles are on par with those two trails (if I am wrong, please let me know).

Also, I have no problem turning back if it looks too difficult for me and my truck, but that is not something that can be determined by pics and videos. Rest assured, if you are ever stuck behind my nearly stock truck it will only be because I am waiting on someone else.

[Allen Cox]

I've seen stock Rangers go through the Crack, so no, I don't believe it's the same. There are trails that have minimum requirements for a reason. If you were to get stuck, and I ran across you, I'd tow you out, not further up.

[Shaggy]

FWIW...the Crack is far from the hardest part, and the Rubicon is worse then GS.

Also, I understand the need for minimum requirements for someone who is not willing to turn back, but I do not believe you can apply them to everyone. The Ruicon "requires" 35's for a long wheelbase unless you want severe damage, but I did it on 32's with very minor damage and without slowing anyone down.

BTW...it doesn't appear I am making friend very quickly here. :)

[Packman5280]

it's not whether you can make it or if you're will to turn back, it's how long it takes before you get out of the way. a buggy would walk right up things that would take you a long time to find the right line and get over. yeah, you could get over, but how long does everyone have to wait while you try? and FWIW, i'm using you plural not singular.

no unfriendliness here, don't worry. i'm an asshole, but i'm pretty easy to get along with. just making a point, hijacking threads, doing my thing.

[Alpine Spirit]

Yeah Shaggy dont worry about it, we are all low key here. I get out of the way of buggies and if we have a larger group we try to let the smaller faster groups go on by.

Driver experience is key. For instance I had a group of 20 rigs keeping up with 3 jeeps. Everytime we caught up they could not believe it. They were obviously new to the area and slick rock but we still had fun watching them spot down every little ledge. They stayed far enough ahead normally so it was not an isssue. But if had been 5 jeeps at that pace I would have asked if we could get our group by.

Its all about respect for the fellow wheeler no matter what they drive.

[Packman5280]

...and i quit smoking today, so i'm a little on edge. my ride home from work was bad.

[ChefTyler]

Good luck Jamie!

[Shaggy]

So is it agreed that I am allowed to try Holy Cross on 31's with a rear locker as long as I get the hell out of the way if anyone comes up behind me? :cool: :bannana:

[CurleyMan]

yea pretty much Carnage (left hand canyon) has the same problem. To many stock vehicles running it. Not only does it cause traffic problems but people tend to widen the trail by going around the obsticle. I screwed up bad last year when I brought a bunch of almost stock vehicles on a carnage run with me. Alot more trail damage and tree damage ocurred then I would have predicted. Months later I was running the trail with boulder cruiser and his built X. We came apon a group of 10 stock jeeps and a broken bronco clogging the trail. They wanted both of us to wait for them to struggle over every opsticle. It pissed me off so much I don't think i'll ever forget it. We blazed past them ignoring their demands. Stock trucks should stay on trails they are built for. Spinning tires and winching tears up the trail over time and all of the built trucks hate trail building. So if anyone here does build up an obsticle please make sure to un-build it. Leave it like it was before you came please.... I'm not being cocky i'll run moderate trails with anyone anyday but the hard trails are there for people who have modified thier vehicles to run them.

[Shaggy]

Out of curiousity, how is saying stock'ish trucks should stay off hard trails any better then saying lifted trucks should staff off pavement? There have been far more times that I have been stuck behind a slow moving lifted truck on pavement (because they are less stable at highway speeds, and around corners) then any truck has ever been stuck behind me on the trails.

As far as the group you ran Carnage with, and the group you got stuck behind...the drivers are the problem there, not the trucks they are in. If someone is going to do something stupid and break their truck (or not tread lightly)...they are going to do it no matter what they are driving. Don't assume only drivers of stock'ish trucks are responsible for this behavior.

I do trails that are a little harder then recommended for my setup, but I don't put myself into a situation to destroy my truck, and I always move out of the way if someone faster comes along. If you can accept that, great. If not, that's your problem.

[Allen Cox]

By stating that you're a 'driver' and that you can drive your truck, or anything it appears, through the hardest trails, then who is to say that all the folks that are also on the trails, but clearly aren't drivers, aren't saying the same thing?

Everyone thinks they're a driver! We all think that if we were in 'that' situation, that we would've been able to do it, better, faster and without spinning a tire.

If you're on a trail, that has specifications for it, and you don't meet those specs, then you shouldn't be on the trail. Not having those specs is your problem, not ours! We can clear the trail without tearing anything up. And I guarantee you that if I were to follow you, on something like Holy Cross, Carnage (at Chinaman's, not the playground), or even on the Rubicon, that I would find something that you had damaged, rubbed or bypassed (where there isn't supposed to be a bypass but others without the specs decided they needed to be there too!) and have caused trail damage.

We're getting trails closed because of the mindset that "I'm a driver, all those other guys are the problem, not me.". Carnage just got opened recently again after being closed because of too much damage. It wasn't the buggy guys that damaged it, but the folks that shouldn't have been up there to begin with. Left Hand is going to get shut down because of the damage and the mess. It's not the guys that clear the stuff, or that can negotiate the obstacles that are getting it shut down. It's the guys that have strapped themselves over a rock using a tree that have made this happen. That have engaged their rear locker and spun the hell out of the tires to get over the rock, and now there's a huge rut there because 20 others have done the same thing, in the last week! It's the 'new' bypass that someone figured out because they didn't want to get a scratch on their Grand Cherokee by running next to an outcropping, but ran through some nice grass instead. "Why hasn't anyone done that before?! Why do the hard stuff?" Might as well light up a forest fire to cook a spotted owl for dinner because hey(!), it's just one, right?

People without vehicles that can get over stuff, without the right equipment that's specified for a trail and the one's that claim being a 'driver' is all they need are the ones getting our lands shut down.

This isn't anything personal, it's just the way it is! I don't want any more trails shut down. I fight for everything that I can to make sure that I/we do everything possible to insure that we're not going to lose any more trails/land. If that means that I'm a dick, then so be it. But my nieces and nephews will be able to see the lands and sights that I've been on and around. They'll be able to go camping, fishing and hiking due to my actions.

I'm perfectly fine with that.

[Shaggy]

Wow...this discussion gets more fun by the minute.

I can assure you that in the 5 years (not long by any stretch) I have been wheeling I have never gone off the trail anywhere that I had any possible way of knowing. Have I used an "illegal bypass" before? Never knowingly, but probably. I am willing to bet that everyone who wheels has at one time taken an illegal bypass because there was no way to know better (and some people probably do it purposely as well). I have NEVER knowingly left the trail.

Also, the worst damage I have ever caused is scraping frames/skidplates/bumpers across rock. I avoid wheel spin (as best I can) to prevent breakage so I do not dig holes more so then anyone else, and I always tow or winch to another vehicle when need be, never a tree.

I hate to break it to you, but I don't want to have trails closed any more than you do. Just because I sometimes chose to test myself and my truck a little more then necessary does not automatically mean that I do not tread lightly. I am not saying I am a better driver then anyone else, but I am more self-conscious about treading lightly and allowing the faster truck the right of way then most people.

[ChefTyler]

I like pie :D

[Allen Cox]

I like pie :D

With wipped cream. Not that fake crap, but the real stuff!

On a side note, I guess if we continue this hijack, we should move this or lock it. Let's see how it plays out...

[ChefTyler]

Mmmmmmmmmm...nothing like taking real cream, a little confectioners sugar...combine and whisk till your arm gives out...good stuff :D

Exactly why I posted what I did...it was one more bitchy post from being moved...still a ways from being locked tho ;)

[Shaggy]

This one time, at band camp....

[csutke]

how bout pie and ice cream? just like mom used to make

[ChefTyler]

Nothing at all wrong with pie and home made ice cream...so long as it's a pie served hot...something about hot pie with ice cream that makes me feel all fat and happy.

Damnit, now I have to go to lunch someplace with good pie today.

[Shaggy]

I have never been a big fan of pie. I want some cheese cake instead. :cool:

[DamnHippie]

I have never been a big fan of pie. I want some cheese cake instead. :cool:

Now you've done it. Disagreeing with others (even if the form of the disagreement is based on calmly-discussed substance, not personal attacks) is cause to lock and/or delete threads, will upset the netnannies, and can eventually lead to the heartbreak of psoriasis. You've been warned.

[CurleyMan]

It is a real problem weather you want to admit it or not. This is not an argument about dick size or who's truck is better, faster, stronger, ect. This is a discussion about trail Etiquette and trail riding responsibility. I am not bashing your SUV or your driving capabilities with your SUV. This is not a pissing contest though and I really don't care what you think about your driving skills. No-matter what stock rigs should not be on carnage. If you don't understand this then follow me to lefthand canyon on sunday. Please drive behind me (I have no trouble accelerating and cornering as you stated before) Then when we get there follow my lines up the trail. I will show you how the trail should be run. We will not take any of the bypasses and we will not trail build. I don't appreciate web wheelers when you argue about things you have no experiance with.

Sorry about hyjacking the thread

This kinda stuff just pisses me off cause I don't think carnage will be open much longer....... :(

[Shaggy]

For what it's worth, I never have done carnage, and never plan to do carnage. I don't wheel for the challenge, I wheel for the scenery and carnage is too close to Boulder for me to be interested.

I understand that it is a real problem. I am not arguing that point (although I do enjoy a good argument, so once this one is over I might have to change my stance :D). People who tear up trails, don't tread lightly, trail build, and block traffic for any period of time should be shot (maybe not literally, but you get my point). The only point I am trying to make is that just because I drive an almost stock truck on the occasional moderate-difficult trail do not automatically assume that I am guilty of one of those 4 things. That's all I am asking.

[CurleyMan]

Csutke tackled a moderate-difficult trail with me this weekend. His rig is lifted and has an LSD but other then that mostly stock. He was a great driver and very capable wheeler having tackled heart attack hill flawlessly. Carnage, kremmling, and the springs trails are different though. The people who ran carnage with me where good drivers as well. Sometimes the trail stretches the physical limits of the truck no-matter how good the driver is. That's all i have to say i hope we have come to terms with this topic.

[Shaggy]

Sometimes the trail stretches the physical limits of the truck no-matter how good the driver is.Agreed. And when things hit that point I personally find somewhere to turn around and find something else to do. :beermug:

[itsme1738]

when i was waiting 2 hrs...it was mostly because a jeep
broke down right on french creek...then 2 trucks had to
get winched through...
I WILL SAY YOU HAVE TO HAVE A WINCH TO MAKE THE FINAL
OBSTICLE